tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post6695679993674917596..comments2024-02-23T10:53:19.705+00:00Comments on Dare to Know: Summary of What's Wrong with the Home Education (Duty of Local Authorities) BillCarlottahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12686469871331093679noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-26728412635455274172018-04-01T19:08:33.690+01:002018-04-01T19:08:33.690+01:00The thing is, if the state has reasonable cause to...The thing is, if the state has reasonable cause to think that an education is limited, then it does have the power to intervene. If there is a problem of SAO failure, it certainly won't be solved by Soley's bill as it doesn't address that aspect at all. Perhaps that is something that Soley actually should be addressing as it sounds more useful. <br /><br />Soley's bill is actually not the most useful thing that could be done - it really isn't! For starters, it won't work because HEors who are genuinely limiting their children's education or are otherwise abusive, neglectful etc, just won't register! What have they got to lose? Absolutely nothing, seeing as any resulting fine is probably less bad than what will happen to them and their families once they are inspected. So LAs will spend a lot of time running after law abiding families who will be the only ones they know about. <br /><br />And then there's mission creep. In France, by way of an example, after the state had imposed visits and controls on core curriculum, the final phase is in the offing, ie, that French parents will need an authorisation from the state to home educate. <br /><br />Here in the UK, we look and learn! We believe that if we let it, we are opening the door to more and more state control, more and more intrusion in to the most intimate corners of private family life, state diktat taking over in everything we do. <br /><br />And the irony of the state wanting to take over like this: it fxxks up so badly all the time when it tries to do things in this area! They have SO many huge problems that the state is not addressing: not simply appalling schools, coerced de-registrations, bullying of children in schools, limited EOTAS provision etc, but also situations like that in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, Derby and Telford, where literally thousands of young schooled girls who were raped over and over again, were known to the authorities, and yet nothing was done about them for years and years and years! Obesity happens on a massive scale in schools, prompted by the stresses of schoolings, the poor food, the ignoring of body clocks etc. It is a bitter pill for HEors to swallow when it appears that we will be forced to have our lives are to be picked over in every minutiae when there are huge, glaring problems that should rightly be the matter for the authorities that are routinely not being dealt with!<br /><br />And whilst you may say that your colleagues want the best for children, it also feels as if there can be a LOT of problems with this idea. Your "best" for a child may well not be the child's "best" for example. <br /><br />Let me give you an example: a farmer friend of ours took a bunch of us out on a tour of his farm the other day. He spent ages ferrying us too and fro showing us one bit of the farm or the other, then provided a complete feast at the end of the day! He really "thought" he was doing his best for us, but the problem was, I wasn't interested, on top of which I was cold for most of the time, desperately car sick and hungry WAY before food was provided. This nominally kind hearted person with the best of intentions and wanting to do the very best by us actually didn't listen to what we actually wanted and would benefit from, and yet walked away, conscience free, "because he wanted the best for us and thought he had done it!"<br /><br /> Wanting the best for someone is a dangerous idea. It would be far better to want to enable what they want! If someone from the LA were to say that to me, I would listen, and yet because adults are, as a general rule, so enculturated to think that we couldn't possibly ask that question of children and get a responsible answer, (despite all this state guff about the "voice of the child"), LAs are still a million miles away from being able to offer this on any meaningful level whatsoever.<br /> <br /><br /> Carlottahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686469871331093679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-89730546439366009182017-12-01T21:02:16.649+00:002017-12-01T21:02:16.649+00:00I agree that the last thing the authorities should...I agree that the last thing the authorities should be doing is limiting delivery of education, but I really believe this bill will prevent inexperienced and vulnerable educators limiting their young people's education themselves (as in religious extremist or overly culturally specific education approaches).<br /><br />I appreciate that we do have the power to place legal constraints upon those we believe aren't educating, but quite frankly we don't like to assume, if we can't see a child we can't know if education is happening. If we assume everyone who refuses a visit isn't educating then we would be using an awful lot of court time, public money, and causing a great deal of stress to families. Also I'm sure you'll agree that positive reinforcement is a much better vehicle of change than punishment. Of most of the school attendance orders I've been privy to the children don't end up in school, the parents don't improve the education provided, instead they are taken to court for breaching the order, slapped with a huge fine, and we appear heavy handed and uncaring. I believe a school attendance order is an absolute last resort and rather draconian. The whole exercise is so much easier on all involved when families show off their work, we say thank you very much, good on you, and move on to the next family! <br /><br />All my colleagues genuinely care about the children known to us and we want the best outcomes for them, prosecuting people does not make us feel good, what makes us feel good is meeting hugely enthusiastic and eccentric families who take pride in their children's abilities and accomplishments. <br /><br />SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-25503975656618393162017-12-01T21:01:49.471+00:002017-12-01T21:01:49.471+00:00Feel free! I would love to reach more of the commu...Feel free! I would love to reach more of the community. <br /><br />The tick box aspect of things is difficult, when dealing with huge numbers of people it is hard to record in an entirely qualitative way. Whilst we will record what families are doing in this format we also have more detailed summaries of their methods from talking to them and taking notes on what they share with us. To mark that a child is learning maths doesn't mean they need to be sat down at a desk in front of an exercise book, we recognise that people employ many different approaches to education but it's often clear from meeting the child if they are receiving an education or not; we don't need to see conformity to recognise when good education is happening. I think an assessment is too strong a word, we don't test children, for us it's much more about setting up a dialogue. <br /><br />I appreciate that it can take longer to learn through these methods, if I recall correctly I was around 7/8 when my mum taught me to read. Again it's more about the process than the proficiency for us, we want to see that education is happening, we aren't there to test the children. <br /><br />It is my understanding that the new legislation if it makes it into law would ensure that certain areas are covered by educators, rather than demanding a defined proficiency in said areas. We've seen children who are very learned but morbidly obese, we've seen children with incredible engineering minds but completely illiterate, my sister is EHE and her writing ability is astounding but her maths is appalling. I have a friend who was home educated in an extremist Christian setting, she is fluent in ancient Greek and can quote the bible end to end, but she is extremely naive and gained no qualifications. I think what's needed is a basic set of expectations/ areas that are deemed necessary to cover, while retaining the freedom of choice with how those areas are delivered. <br /><br />I see no issue with the methods mentioned here, much of my education came from long conversations/debates with my mum that were directed by me. I think the issue with unschooling from the perspective of the LEA is that a small minority use the term incorrectly, some will claim they are unschooling and be using their children for domestic servitude, childcare for younger siblings, underage employment, etc etc. Yes it is a minority of a huge community, but as history will tell you it is often the minority that need to be protected/regulated. Also, as ridiculous as it sounds, the term conjures up a negative image of opposition to education rather than a genuine alternative. <br /><br />SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-62540744275053859222017-12-01T10:06:40.363+00:002017-12-01T10:06:40.363+00:00It is also the case, of course, that concerns abou...It is also the case, of course, that concerns about families can actually be dealt with through the current regulatory framework. LAs can already intervene where they do have valid concerns, yet so many LA officers are unaware of their current powers, or are for some reason unwilling to use them. <br /><br />LAs can indeed issue SAOs where there is obviously no educational provision whatsoever. That is the intent of s437, ie: SAOs after the informal and formal process of inquiries has been exhausted.<br />Carlottahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686469871331093679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-55069482547061604592017-12-01T09:35:05.419+00:002017-12-01T09:35:05.419+00:00Dear Anon S,
Thank you so much for your comment ...Dear Anon S, <br /><br />Thank you so much for your comment which is very helpful and yes, it would be great to have a proper debate about this. I will try to bring some here, but in lieu of that, if it is OK with you, I will raise the sort of points you raise elsewhere, (obviously without identifying you), as your perception of both sides of the argument is a rare commodity. <br /><br />I think one of the problems for many home educators is a feeling that the pedagogy they espouse is still not whole-heartedly accepted as valid by the authorities. Unschoolers, autonomous educators and self directed learners routinely face a barrage of tick box questions from LAs, which require them to demonstrate that their child is doing English, Maths, Music, Biology etc. None of these sort of subject categories are likely to fit easily within an unschooling or AE framework and it sets the whole project of assessment of educational development off on the wrong foot. <br /><br />By way of an example of the problem, it is routinely the case that unschooled children learn to read at an older age than most schooled children, (though we all know of course that the huge effort that is often put in to getting schooled children has hugely limited returns, that many don't read nearly as well as one imagines and are often reluctant readers when they finally get the skills). Unschooled children however don't suffer for learning to read much later. Most of the unschooled young people I know didn't learn to read till aged 9 till 14, and yet all, without fail, are now highly literate, and are able to undertake further education and be fully engaged in the workplace. <br /><br />However, it is often difficult to explain the fact that the unschooling child is not doing anything about reading and writing to LA officials, and on many LA forms we receive. We often are reduced to hedging and blustering and we don't feel we want to do this! <br /><br />So until unschooling/AE/SDE etc are properly appreciated and understood by the powers that be, there will be suspicion from huge swathes of the HE community. <br /><br />My personal feeling, what with the school system falling apart as it is, is that unschooling theory etc has much to teach the rest of the education system, but because these are so vastly different from a schooling pedagogy, and there is so much vested interest in maintaining the educational status quo, this seems virtually impossible. <br /><br />Sugata Mitra started to show the way with his "hole in the wall" experiments, which are of course, not entirely unschooling, but which demonstrate how alternatives can work and how they can be easily adapted and refined...see his use of the "granny Cloud". That is also one of the great joys of unschooling method: it can be easily adapted as well as being personalised to the child, ie: the most efficient form of education known to man, yet can we be believed on this? <br /><br />Unschoolers KNOW unschooling works. They won't give it up lightly. They won't want to have to jump through antiquated, inhibiting and totally redundant hoops that often limit what they can and cannot do throughout the year. In fact, they would prefer the learning establishment to face up to the fact that unschooling is actually a more efficient way to learn. <br />Carlottahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12686469871331093679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11652148.post-80913999479745360932017-12-01T00:36:49.555+00:002017-12-01T00:36:49.555+00:00Hi Carlotta,
I think you make some very interesti...Hi Carlotta,<br /><br />I think you make some very interesting points here. <br /><br />I have remained anonymous here as I work for a local authority providing admin support for the EHE team and I can't afford to risk my job!<br /><br />I was home educated myself and I went into this position with the intention of championing home educators rights from within the LEA, however I have come across a huge amount of vulnerable families bullied into EHE by schools failing their children - as a result of these failings they are very distrustful of the local authority which makes it difficult to assist them. <br /><br />I would like to make clear that I and all my colleagues insist on encouraging families to seek support from home ed groups on facebook before and during EHE. It's not hard to appreciate that those actually experiencing this education choice are better placed to advise than we are much of the time.<br /><br />I look upon this bill optimistically, but I think the greatest concern is consistency. In my authority all officers are expected to keep an open mind when establishing what is suitable, we engage with families as best we can and support their decision and rights, however, I appreciate this may not be the case for all LEAs so I think if authorities are well informed then it could be a good thing for home educators.<br /><br />Finally I must say when families refuse to engage with us (as my mother did when I was home educated) it presents a huge challenge to the LEA because of our experience (as more of our time is dedicated to struggling families than those who are demonstrably capable) we are inclined to assume the worst! I really do believe that home educators should be proud of their decision and of the accomplishments of their young people, honestly it puts such a huge smile on our faces when we meet or talk to a home educator who genuinely has put their child first and is achieving great things. <br /><br />I hope to have a good debate with yourself and your peers, I think it's important for those on both sides of the table talk to each other about their concerns!<br /><br />I look forward to talking with you further :)<br /><br />SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com