I thought that was quite a lovely piece. Interesting, from my POV, to see a homeschooled child obviously enjoying some adult-imposed structured learning.
Sometimes I wonder if my teens would have been less averse to that if they'd never been to school.
t seemed to me a bit of a shame that she hated maths so much and couldn't see any 'story' in it. There is potentially so much!
Maybe if she'd been left to come round to it in her own good time she would have thought it fun. Actually, in my primary school (a John Holt influenced one) we used to sit around on tables having really good fun conversations about maths, so that I didn't know it was work at all.
Doing maths at home with my mother, on the other hand, ugh! Shudder in remembrance!
Maybe it is all about how, rather than where and with whom.
You are right, of course. That was a glib phrase! (Although I'm afraid I have no idea what iyswim means)
Having a good location, content and personal interaction simultaneously must be optimum for learning; and I think, as far as enjoying maths was concerned, my experience wasn't too bad, although it could have been better!
Did she say anything about showing anything to the authorities? I didn't see it, but I did read in haste...
My take on it was similar to Gill's in that it was interesting to read a piece about structured HE that was clearly also almost (apart from the maths) uncoerced learning.
Why do you all dislike giving a structure to home-ed so much. We use a structure and even though at times its not popular it still works well, not every homeschooler has the confidence to do it with the children leading it all.
Hello, last anon. I actually never said I didn't like "structure" per se. I would have said repeatedly that I think "coercion" is a less good way to learn because in enacting a theory whilst having a contradictory theory active in the mind, means that one is less likely to learn well.
Therefore if the learning is structured and freely chosen by the child, I would have no problem at all with it.
I try sometimes with information that seems to have good problem solving characteristics for my children, to explain to them the relevance of learning it. In this way, they can see the usefulness of applying some kind of so-called structure to the acquisition of this knowledge...so we too, sometimes, use structure, though it is usually (hopefully) child led.
I don't know about Carlotta, and it is probably different, but there was quite a bit of structure (and is) with my ds in some areas because he sometimes finds it really beneficial. For instance, fixed lessons with external teachers in subjects he is very enthusiastic about. One of these has been on a weekly basis for years now, and he never wants to miss it. He also sets himself goals occasionally that involve some sort of routine.
He was never good at enjoying structure for the sake of it even when schooled. He had the knack of being there only in body, which meant that he was entirely wasting time - his and the teacher's. D
For example, when learning to read, we started out working through the letter sounds in a systematic sort of way, though once we had done the basics, the whole stately progression through the phonic rules proved unnecessary as context-related reading seemed to impart this sort of knowledge implicitly. So even in situations where we set out to impose a structure on our learning, we almost always find that we have to abandon our original plans to better suit our needs, and can afford to be apparently much more haphazard about learning than the lesson plans would imply.
Am an American, homeschooling in Canada, Just got the clipping of M Sabisky in the post from my sis in the uk. Awesome article. Well articulated. We read it outloud over lunch and had a great laugh about hating maths and borrowing dogs. I could write a ton contradicting the bit about no story in maths... but I'd rather just say what a great read and boy would my 8 year old love to meet her. wonderful persona. How lovely she could speak her mind, say her opinion without a parent over editing. And, isn't it great? All these great homeschool kids...structured or unstructured we really notice the beautiful character that has developed in each all of them.
I really appreciate your thoughtful approach in this post! It broadened my perspective. Take a look at this profile for more enriching content Mental Age Test. The mental age test shows whether your mindset is youthful or more mature.
I thought that was quite a lovely piece. Interesting, from my POV, to see a homeschooled child obviously enjoying some adult-imposed structured learning.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder if my teens would have been less averse to that if they'd never been to school.
Not sure about that Gill - my two youngest have never been to school and no way would I be able( or want ) to impose that sort of HE on them:)
ReplyDeletet seemed to me a bit of a shame that she hated maths so much and couldn't see any 'story' in it. There is potentially so much!
ReplyDeleteMaybe if she'd been left to come round to it in her own good time she would have thought it fun. Actually, in my primary school (a John Holt influenced one) we used to sit around on tables having really good fun conversations about maths, so that I didn't know it was work at all.
Doing maths at home with my mother, on the other hand, ugh! Shudder in remembrance!
Maybe it is all about how, rather than where and with whom.
D
"Maybe it is all about how, rather than where and with whom."
ReplyDeleteyes perhaps, though I think the "how" could include the "whether", and indeed the "where" and the "with whom"...iyswim!
You are right, of course. That was a glib phrase! (Although I'm afraid I have no idea what iyswim means)
ReplyDeleteHaving a good location, content and personal interaction simultaneously must be optimum for learning; and I think, as far as enjoying maths was concerned, my experience wasn't too bad, although it could have been better!
D
Showing to the authorities home-educators are up to standards is a path of no return.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon,
ReplyDeleteDid she say anything about showing anything to the authorities? I didn't see it, but I did read in haste...
My take on it was similar to Gill's in that it was interesting to read a piece about structured HE that was clearly also almost (apart from the maths) uncoerced learning.
Hi D,
ReplyDeleteiyswim...if you see what I mean!
Why do you all dislike giving a structure to home-ed so much. We use a structure and even though at times its not popular it still works well, not every homeschooler has the confidence to do it with the children leading it all.
ReplyDeleteHello, last anon. I actually never said I didn't like "structure" per se. I would have said repeatedly that I think "coercion" is a less good way to learn because in enacting a theory whilst having a contradictory theory active in the mind, means that one is less likely to learn well.
ReplyDeleteTherefore if the learning is structured and freely chosen by the child, I would have no problem at all with it.
I try sometimes with information that seems to have good problem solving characteristics for my children, to explain to them the relevance of learning it. In this way, they can see the usefulness of applying some kind of so-called structure to the acquisition of this knowledge...so we too, sometimes, use structure, though it is usually (hopefully) child led.
What kind of structure do you use?
ReplyDeleteI don't know about Carlotta, and it is probably different, but there was quite a bit of structure (and is) with my ds in some areas because he sometimes finds it really beneficial. For instance, fixed lessons with external teachers in subjects he is very enthusiastic about. One of these has been on a weekly basis for years now, and he never wants to miss it. He also sets himself goals occasionally that involve some sort of routine.
ReplyDeleteHe was never good at enjoying structure for the sake of it even when schooled. He had the knack of being there only in body, which meant that he was entirely wasting time - his and the teacher's.
D
For example, when learning to read, we started out working through the letter sounds in a systematic sort of way, though once we had done the basics, the whole stately progression through the phonic rules proved unnecessary as context-related reading seemed to impart this sort of knowledge implicitly. So even in situations where we set out to impose a structure on our learning, we almost always find that we have to abandon our original plans to better suit our needs, and can afford to be apparently much more haphazard about learning than the lesson plans would imply.
ReplyDeleteAm an American, homeschooling in Canada, Just got the clipping of M Sabisky in the post from my sis in the uk. Awesome article. Well articulated. We read it outloud over lunch and had a great laugh about hating maths and borrowing dogs. I could write a ton contradicting the bit about no story in maths... but I'd rather just say what a great read and boy would my 8 year old love to meet her. wonderful persona. How lovely she could speak her mind, say her opinion without a parent over editing.
ReplyDeleteAnd, isn't it great? All these great homeschool kids...structured or unstructured we really notice the beautiful character that has developed in each all of them.
I really appreciate your thoughtful approach in this post! It broadened my perspective. Take a look at this profile for more enriching content Mental Age Test. The mental age test shows whether your mindset is youthful or more mature.
ReplyDelete